13. It ain't your fault you hate videos

In an AI age, being visible ain't an option... unless you wanna end up broke working in Greggs.

If you want paying clients, you have to build trust, which means showing up, showing your face and talking on camera.

Now whilst that might send shivers down your spine, you are forgiven for having this fear.

Your dislike of videos or any sort of public speaking for that matter isn't your fault. Society's done a real number on you.

You've been charged a "don't-be-too-much" tax your whole life. School, magazines, parents, society... all drip-feeding the same message: shrink, stay quiet, don't show off. 

No wonder showing up on camera feels terrifying. It's not weakness. It's decades of conditioning. And once you see it for what it is, you can start undoing it.

In this episode, I'm joined by brand photographer and visibility strategist Abi Moore, and we are getting into it. 

We're talking about why so many brilliant women are hiding online, why selling feels icky when it really doesn't have to, and why the thing standing between you and your next client probably isn't your skills... it's your silence.

Here's what we cover:

🧠 Why your fear of showing up isn't a personality flaw... it's a billing error

You didn't arrive at this fear on your own. 

It was built into you. 

And understanding that is the first step to undoing it.

🎯 Why trying to appeal to everyone is killing your chances

You are not a beige wall. 

Niche down, speak directly, and the right people will find you already half sold before they've even said hello.

📹 Why done beats perfect... every single time

Accept it'll go wrong. 

Expect to forget your words. 

Do it anyway. 

Imperfect visibility beats perfect silence. 

Nobody didn't hire you because your hair was a bit flat.

If you've been telling yourself you'll start showing up properly once everything's a bit more polished, a bit more ready, a bit more whatever... this episode is your sign to stop waiting.

Go find Abi:

📸 Instagram: @abbymooreuk

💼 LinkedIn: Abby Moore Branding

GET IN TOUCH 

Message me at helen@helenwalkercoaching.com 

Follow me on Instagram 

Connect with me on LinkedIn 

Watch this podcast on YouTube

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to another episode of the Wanky Thoughts Podcast. I'm very excited because I've got a guest. I've got a guest today, the lovely Abby Moore. How are you, Abby?

SPEAKER_01 0:13

I'm good, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 0:14

How are you? Very well. Welcome to the podcast on this blistering hot day. We're sat here in next to nothing trying to just fight the heat, aren't we? Yes, that heat glowing. But um, yeah, thank you for the opportunity to come and talk to you. I'm very excited. Well, I'm excited about this one because we met um a couple of months ago now, didn't we? At a networking event. And I think we bonded over our, I don't know whether we would call it a value, a passion, a frustration. Um, and we were talking, we could have, I mean, I could have talked to you all flip in afternoon. Um, but we were like, actually, let's do this on a podcast. Now, Abby, rather than me say this, because I think you you you articulate this beautifully. Tell me what your um your biggest in fact, I've missed a bit out. Just tell us what you do first before I'm so into this conversation, I'm raring to go, but just tell us what you do.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

So I am a brand photographer and visibility strategist. So, what that means put simply is that I help women become the face of their brand. So I work with solo businesses and founder-led brands, and I help them build that personal brand through the strategy and the visibility, the images to actually show up with the identities that they want to present to the world.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

So there's a lot of crossover, isn't there, between what we both do? And I think this is why we've got this shared passion. So let's get into this because I'm eager. Tell us, what is your biggest frustration about the online world and the business world, especially for women?

SPEAKER_01 1:45

So, what I found is most of the women I work with leave the workplace because it doesn't suit them, lots of them because they become mothers and juggling motherhood and a corporate career just doesn't work for them anymore. And we've kind of broken that mould and moved out of that into this new world, and we see all these amazing women becoming entrepreneurs, but then feeling quite shy about telling the world how amazing they are and putting themselves out there and putting their face out there as well. And I've see this in so many of the women that I work with that they it's been built into them, ingrained that you need to be good, be quiet, keep small, don't be too full of yourself. Um like to say you love yourself, like, oh yeah, we sort of say, oh, she loves herself, sounds like a um like a bad thing. Yeah, exactly. But actually, like, yeah, let's love ourselves, let's love our businesses, let's tell the world we're amazing, but it's built into us that we should hide away. So that's basically where I work with women to get them to step out from hiding and show their faces, be proud of who they are, and show up um on in images, on video, and get themselves out there.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

And this really resonates. I think this is why I I share your passion for for this this subject, this this movement, shall we uh shall we call it? Because I was exactly the same. So I've had my business, oh god, it's probably coming up like 13 years, might even be more. But when I was in the corporate world, I've always worked in sales and I was always really good at my job, and I had um mostly male bosses telling me, you know, you're brilliant and you're great, and you know, you can make all this uh money and blah blah. And in that world, it felt okay to go, yeah, you know, I'm I'm number one in my organization and I've built the most amount of money, and everybody knew I was. But when it came to my own business, I had this idea that well, I'm great at sales because I've made all this money for this company, and but when it came to selling my own stuff, oh my god, I couldn't sell for ages, and I reckon I struggled in my business probably for a couple of years, just like sales trickling in. And it was because of this, I didn't realise at the time, but this belief that I've got this subconscious belief that it was wrong to go, oh my god, I'm amazing, and and yes, I can help you, and and you know, I'm the best thing since sliced bread. That just went against everything that society, maybe even my parents, school. It just went against everything I've been told. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

Yeah, so actually, we haven't talked about this, but I've come from a similar background. So I was in the corporate world, I was a PR manager for British Airways, and you know, when I was working for them, we were using the tagline, the world's favourite airline. And I was going out there, writing press releases, speaking to journalists, saying, we're amazing because of this, we're amazing because of this, we've got a flatbed in business class, and this is why it's the best. And you're so comfortable going, we're the best, this is brilliant, but it's very different when you're talking about a big brand, a company that's kind of your distance from you, to then apply that to us as a business, where it's just us as a solo business or sort of founder-led and coming out as our you know, personal brand, because it's suddenly very different because we're saying, I'm the best, I'm amazing. And women just really struggle with that. And I always say to people, people, and some of the women I work with kind of go, yes, okay, I am really good, and I'm very happy to admit that. And some go, oh, but I'm not the best. And I'm like, but you are the best for someone out there. Someone out there needs your services. So I would never say I'm the best brand photographer in the world. Like, I know I'm not, but I know I'm the best brand photographer for women that feel camera shy, women that struggle with this kind of thing. My particular audience, I know I'm the best for them. And so it's knowing who you're the best for and being comfortable saying, yes, I am the best at this, because it is something that we really have struggled with. And I think, yeah, it's ingrained into us from an early age, like you say, like don't be, you know, don't be a show-off, um, don't be too full of yourself, don't be big-headed. Um, and we are just taught, yeah, like you say, school, society, all these messages are be a good girl and just kind of, yeah, stay in your lane, stay in your box, don't be full of yourself and you know, keep quiet. And that has been built into us for a long, long time. So then to suddenly come into the business world and and we're going, nope, scrap all that, just step out there and go, I'm the best, is is very hard.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

And it's, I mean, that god, I've read so many books about this and watched so many things about this, and and you can see how it's a lot of little messages that women have been trip-fed over the years that have made this big impact of why we think we're not as good as men. And I'd like to say that that's all in the past, you know, even like my mum's generation or my nana's generation, you know, you know, didn't have their own bank accounts and have to get a man to sign things off and like really things that we think are ridiculous now. And we'd like to think that that's all in the past, but I think we can see from what happens now, women are still not, we're still not equal, are we? So it makes it even harder for people when we're we're still faced with these um uh these messages that we don't belong in the room. I uh going on a bit of a tangent, and I don't know any context, it was just a soundbite on Instagram. I I don't particularly like the fella, so I wasn't gonna watch loads of it, but there was a thing about Trump did some don't know if it was a press conference or something, and he said, Oh, I noticed there's no women in the room, good. And I don't know if that was just you know taken out of context. I don't know. I but these messages we're still getting that we don't belong in that room, which of course is gonna make it hard for us.

SPEAKER_01 8:14

Yeah, absolutely. And it's we are living I so I am a bit of a feminist, I did a degree in media and culture, but my dissertation within that was written on feminism and the Spice Girls, which is a whole other story, but yeah, studied feminism for that, and this is the thing is we are, as you say, all these little subliminal messages. So we live in a patriarchal society, it has the world has been run by men for a long time. Women have been, you know, their place was in the home, and we are seeing that sort of start to change. So we, you know, as you say, women got bank accounts, women were, you know, getting places in the workplace. But even though that has changed, uh so many women feel the need to leave that corporate workplace because it doesn't work for them. And we're still getting these messages that, you know, sort of men are the professional ones. And it's uh, you know, if I go right back to kind of, I think we're probably a similar age, and you know, I grew up sort of 80s, 90s magazines. You'd be get a magazine one week and someone's on the front cover because they're too fat. You get a magazine the next week and someone's on the front cover because they're too skinny. Um, we are being bombarded with products for you are not good enough, you need to buy this thing, so lose weight, sort your skin out, you know, whatever it is. And that is all the kind of appearance-led stuff, which is is huge for women. You know, I photograph women, and I promise it's I am a brilliant photographer, it's not because I'm a bad photographer, but every woman I show the back of the camera and show her photos, the first thing she will say is, Oh yeah, it's really nice, but oh god, my arms, my nose, my hair, my you know, I look bigger, I look older. It will she'll jump to criticizing herself because this is what we've been told all our lives. Yeah, is these things about you are not good enough. Um, so there's like that appearance angle, and then there's also the where we fit in the workplace. You know, you just look, even though things are improving, you look at like the FTSE 500 and the majority of CEOs. Yes, there are more women now than there were however many years ago, but it's still not equal. And it still feels like the workplace is a place for men, and yet here we are. I see all these, I mean, all these amazing communities where you see women like leading the charge, running their own businesses. It's it's a huge growing group of entrepreneurs, like women leaving the corporate workplace, starting their own businesses, and we're kind of on that journey together. So we're we're still we've kind of gone, okay, workplace doesn't work for me, it doesn't, I'm gonna start my own business. And then we're like, okay, we're now what you know, I can run my own business, but I've now got to stand up as the face of that business and tell the world how great I am, and we're still at the sort of forefront of that, so it's we're kind of feeling our way with it. We've got to just learn how to do that. So the more people there are like us saying, Yes, do it, tell the world you're amazing, I think can only be a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 11:27

I agree. And going back to the thing about like the marketing and the messages, it's really interesting because when you look at things that are marketed to men, it's about I'm thinking of like Gillette, you know, the best a man can get. Is that is that the right slogan, right company? Yeah, yeah. It's always about be better, be big be stronger, you know, better, you know, not the fact that because you're not good enough, it's just like be more and you're in, you know, all this. It's a completely different message, and we've had this ram down our throat for years, and it isn't, you know, it it you know, marketeers, unfortunately, they do prey on women's insecurities to make them, you know, if you buy this bag or this cream, or if you have these shoes, or you have this whatever, then you will be better, you know. It's sad that that's you know, we've we've had a lifetime of that, and you're right, we are, you know, we are the trailblazers, we are the ones going, we've got to lead the others. You know, we talk a lot about showing up on video because you're relatable and that's how you're gonna get your ideal client, but actually, we need to remind ourselves that we're in we're in inspiration, we're inspiring these people to um, you know, ask for more, um, be more visible, take up more space, earn more money. Because I think without people like us, we're not how you know, how is anybody in the workplace, you know, woman in the workplace, how are they ever gonna get paid what they're worth if we're still hiding, we're still doubting ourselves and we're still undercharging, it's never gonna change.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

Absolutely. And sort of going off on a tangent a bit here, but I think you know, you were sort of talking about sales earlier. I work more in the field of marketing, and it can sometimes feel a little bit hypocritical because I'm going on this war against the way women have been marketed to for all these years, but then I'm actually teaching people to market themselves, and you think, am I being hypocritical here? Because actually, we when we market ourselves, we are looking at those gaps in people's lives and how we make things better for them. But I think you're right with it's it's not about this is what's wrong with you, it's about how can we help you? How can I make your life better? How working with you know any of my clients' businesses, how they are going to make your life easier or better in some way. Um, and it's not about preying on those insecurities. And I think the more women we can get kind of at the helm of that, the more we're taking control of that message. So it's that I like I say, you know, I early on I would have these like, am I am I part of the problem basically? But it's like, no, because these businesses need to exist for a reason, you know, we wouldn't be running these businesses if people didn't need them. And this is something I quite often say to people is they feel like they need to hide away and they're worried about showing up, and sometimes feel like it's big-headed and you know, they're showing off. But I'm like, actually, there's someone out there that needs what you do, and you're depriving them of that by not putting yourself out there, they need your help, and the best way to do that is by showing up and and getting yourself out there.

SPEAKER_00 14:36

But I think you make a really good point about, you know, was I was I part of the problem. But because we've you know, we're living in a world and a workplace that has been designed by men for men, that we I suppose did what we were told, and and that's how the world was, and this is what you did, and this is how you you sold things. And I think this is why a lot of women now get an ick about selling, and they go, I don't want to sell because yes, we've we've been part of the problem because that's what we were told to do, and okay, well, that's this is the world we live in. And I think now we're out of that, and we go, but we don't want to be like that, because that's how I was taught to sell. I've had in you know, air quotes the best sales training money can buy. I do not use a jot of what I've been taught because it was all about um getting people to say yes, and no matter what, get them to say yes, and use all the tactics to get them to say yes, and you know, almost like confusing them to say yes. Like, I don't want people joining my program that I've hoodwinked into saying yes, or they get there and they go, Oh Christ, I've spent all this money and I didn't I didn't want to. And I think this is the change, this is the mindset shift. And unfortunately, there are still people out there teaching these what I think are old out-of-date tactics that end up people having buyers' remorse. But I think if we can go, well, actually, selling is just let's almost forget the the term selling, you know, it's selling is just having a conversation, and let's you know, go with this idea of what you said of somebody out there has a problem that you have trained immensely to solve, and you are more than experienced to help them, you can help them change their life, whatever that looks like, you know, whatever it is you do, you can help them. And if we don't sell, if we don't have that conversation, then that poor person either goes and buys, you know, gets buyers remorse and is sold into something they don't want by someone who is underhand, or we show up and we, you know, show that we're a trusted person and they get help from the right person and they solve their problem and their life is better. And that's why I love selling so much because it's about it is about making the world a better place with whatever it is that you've got.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

So there's so many things I want to talk about. I mean, yeah, first of all, is I when I was 20 23, 24. Um, so I joined Brid Cherry's on a grad scheme, and as I graduated off of that scheme, you had to apply for sort of roles um in management. And I went for a particular role that I was told at the end of the interview that they were giving it to someone else, that I was actually the better qualified person in many senses, but that I was too young and too nice. And for me now, the reason I mention that is because I actually see being nice as a strength. Like for me, I'm nice and like that's a good thing. Like, it's not people often think like nice is like a bit wet and a bit um, and I'm like, no, let's we should all just be nice in this world. Like it's I'm I'm proud of it, and I genuinely want to help people. Like, this is why I do what I do, it's all about helping. Um, and I think if you take that approach that you just approach it in a nice way, aim to help people, then you're not aiming to. I think we've we've got this feeling that sales is like a bad thing, and is and I certainly had that mindset, you know. I've been in business for 16 years, and I certainly had that mindset early on that sales is a bit icky, like you say, it's a bit kind of like you know, sort of tactics, and and actually now I just see it as like you say, I've got something that people need, I charge for it, I'm open about what I charge. They can decide is it worth that value to them. Um, and I've got an example recently that helped me change my mind. So I bought a car just about two years ago, and I looked at two different cars, and in neither of the places did I feel the sales people were overly salesy. Um, and we kind of have that kind of salesy as a bad thing. But actually, the car that I ended up buying was the one that helped me. So, and actually, when you look at it, he's a great salesman because he asked me what I needed, he told me which car was going to be best for me, he followed up with me. Like so many women are like, Oh, I better not follow up because I'm hassling them. But actually, the guy that didn't get the sale in the end, I he like he was newly trained, so you know, probably didn't really know what he's doing. He never followed up with me. I had to call them to chase him, and then I'm feeling like this is a hassle. Whereas the other guy was just dropping in. Have you got any more questions? Where are you currently thinking? I from the other end of it had no issue with him following up with me because I saw him as it as making my life easier because actually I wanted that car, and you know, he was doing all the things to help me get to the point for the thing that I wanted to buy. And at no point did I feel sold to. And it was a really good learning for me that I think on the other end, when we're selling our stuff, we can feel a bit like, you know, I won't, I followed up once, I won't follow up again because you know I'm hassling them. But we all know life is busy, and people mean to get back to you, and actually sometimes that second email that you send to someone just saying, Oh, just check in in, you know, how's it going? And they're like, Oh, I've been meaning to get back to you, and I do really need this, but you know, I just haven't had time. Thank you for following up. If we see it as helping rather than selling, then it just changes that completely.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

Yeah. And a lot of the times when you follow up, people have got questions that they've already answered in their head, probably incorrectly answered because they've not had all the information, not spoken to. And sometimes all it takes is a, you know, you follow up, are you interested? They go, Well, actually, I'm I'm a bit concerned about this. And you go, Oh, well, actually, it's you know, uh, calls are on a Wednesday, I work Wednesday. Well, actually the calls are on a Thursday as well. Oh, right, I didn't realise. And sometimes it's as simple as just answering a question or giving them more information or just helping, just you know, and loads of women when they're buying are terrible at investing in themselves because we've got all this money guff that you know tell we shouldn't spend money and blah blah blah blah. And sometimes you they just need to talk it through with somebody so they can go, well, actually, if I don't do this thing, if I don't get help or invest in this, then actually it's it's gonna hinder me. I'm I'm gonna be behind or you know, do what I want to do. So sometimes it well, always I consider following up as helping because my opinion is if you're talking to people that don't want or need what you've got, you're talking to the wrong people. Like, I'm not gonna try and convince anybody to buy, like if you're a no, we'd why bother wasting anybody's time. And I think a lot of being visible and being visible with conviction and confidence and authority is about helping people make a decision about is this the right person for me? And I think if we're showing up almost apologetic and a bit, oh god, I've got to do a post, it's a Wednesday, and I'm gonna do a video, and oh, he's me off. We're not helping. Helping that person to make a decision whether we and what we've got are right for them. Because when it comes to my sales calls, they're not sales calls, they're not here's a script, and we've got to overcome these objections, we've got to make them say yes. It's a okay, what do you need to know from me for this to be a yes or no? And I'm I'm happy with it being a yes or a no. I don't want maybes because I've not helped that person make a decision. Yes or no, what do you need from me? Ask me any questions, and most of the time, but God, you know what? I don't really know what I want to ask you. It's just that we've been programmed that we should do a sales call, we should do our due diligence, and we end up having a chat and they've got right sign me up. So there's no, I don't teach people how to like sell in the DMs or scripts or make people say yes, because I think what you put out needs to attract the right people, and then they've sold themselves.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

Absolutely. When I'm working with my clients on visibility strategy, some of the things that I encourage them to do are know their audience and be really clear and niche on that. Um the second one is um my mind's gone blank now. I was like, I've got three things I want to say. Um it's the heat. Yeah, the heat. Um yeah, it's like 30-something degrees. Um yeah, messaging. Um, so when they're working on their messaging, is being really clear on um those things that people say to them, you know, the the objections they get. Like actually, people are like, oh, I'm marketing. I should be like, I should should I be saying that? But I'm like, no, like talk about the reasons that people might not um invest in what you're offering, because you might be answering the question that someone's got. So all of this is giving your audience the information they need before you if they even get to kind of making contact with you. And the third is about really standing for something and not being bland, which I think again, like all helps when it comes to that final um decision. That when, like you say, when they come on a call, they should kind of know that you're the right one for them. And it should literally just be like ticking boxes and you know going through, like, you know, well, how's this actually going to work in reality? Um, and just making that final decision. On the audience, I think I see so many people make the mistake of trying to be for everyone. Yeah. And it links into that stand that it's my sort of first and third points that really link into each other because it's about standing for something as well. And I see it too often when people are looking to grow a business, particularly when it's the early stages or if you're going through a quiet patch, they're like, Well, I better not get too niche because I might upset this person or this person might want it. But actually, those probably people weren't going to buy a few mute anyway. And when I talked earlier about like you are the best for someone out there, this, you know, it's about knowing that who are you the best for, and then speaking to those people because it's not about if you the well, that old adage, if you end up, if you try pleasing everyone, you end up pleasing no one. Because when we try and do that, it's just you you water stuff down, it becomes a bit bland, and it's not landing with anyone. But if you say, I'm specifically for these people, if this is you, I'm the one you want to work with, and this is what I believe, because your beliefs and what you stand for, sometimes we're worried with visibility that, like, oh well, if I can't, if I stand up and say this is my you know firm belief, that we might upset someone and they might, but if we're upsetting them, they're not the right person for us. Exactly. It's gonna land with the people that want to work with us, and actually, by standing up and saying, This is what I stand for, they are gonna see, oh, she knows what she's talking about, she's you know, she's got an angle on this, she's an expert, she's talking directly to me, and yeah, I want to work with her because this is a mistake that yes, far too many people people make with their content is is not getting that sort of like really sort of narrowed down and clear.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

I agree, and it's it I struggled with it, you know, this whole ideal client thing, and it felt like I was putting all my eggs in one basket and saying goodbye to 95% of the market. And I said to my clients, you are that is exactly what you are doing, so you can help that that 10%, because actually that 10% is huge, like there's loads of people in there. In fact, I'm working with a client at the moment and in the Wanky Thoughts Club, and we're looking at her niche and her messaging, and she's a um a parent coach focusing on sleep, and she's absolutely fantastic, years and years of experience, but at the minute her message is not quite landing because it's too safe, it's too vanilla, and she has a very particular way of helping. I mean, she can get your your newborn sleeping through the night, like no problem, but she's got a very um specific way, which probably goes against a lot of like the new parenting rules, if you like. And she says, I don't want to alienate people, and I don't want to say to people you're doing it wrong, and I don't want to criticize anybody. And I said, That's that no, we don't want to do that, but you do need to say this is why I feel that this way is the right way and and the benefits. And I said, just tell stories, just tell your client's stories, so you don't have to say you're doing it wrong by doing it this way, but what you're showing is this person has followed my process. This is what we did, this is what what the problem was, this is what we did, and then this is the outcome. So then you can clearly show your way of working, be very specific, have a you know, have a something that you believe in without having to like alienate or blame anyone because what she's worried about is is trolls and keyboard warriors. And I say, let's just put that fear to bed right now. You will get them, you will get people from the other side who disagree with you going, I disagree, and this is why I disagree. And with something like parenting, you are gonna get very strong emotional responses, but you almost have to accept that and put your armor on and go, well, they're just not my people, they're allowed their view, it doesn't make it right or wrong, it's just different. But I'm gonna go over here where I know these people are on board with my method, my strategies, and I'm gonna help those. And then these people can go and work with that coach over there who is more in line with their values.

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Absolutely. I think it's that courage to be disliked, isn't it? Because if you sort of put yourself out there and you're not clear, you know, looking at her example, there's gonna be mums out there that are struggling, you know, to get their babies to sleep. But if you're like, well, you know, I'm not really clear whether I do this this one or this one, they're like, well, I only really want to work with the one that does that one. If she's not clear on that, they don't know that she's the one for her. Whereas if she just says, you know, there's there's nothing wrong with that way of doing things, but this is how I do it, and a phrase that I am very happy saying, and I encourage my clients to say is, you know, if this is what you want, then I'm not the one for you. Because I think again, it's that worry is like, well, if we turn people away, we're gonna like shut ourselves off. But actually, when they start working with you, are you gonna change the way you do things because they have different beliefs? You're not, because this is what you stand for and you believe in. So you're not gonna change your approach, so you're better off just being upfront about it and going, This is my way of doing things, no problem with the other way of doing things, but you know, I'm the one for you if you're gonna work like this, and having that that clarity and and the confidence to kind of know that you can't please everyone, but you can be the perfect person for the people that need you.

SPEAKER_00 29:54

And I think this goes back to a mindset shift as well of this this like scarcity of there's not enough. There's not enough. And if if I mean we we we pretty much do the same thing there or thereabouts, but I don't think there's any, oh god, she's gonna take my clients, and because there's enough for everyone, and who's gonna work with you might not work with me, and and vice versa. But I think there's this again, I think we have been told that that you know there's just one, there's one winner, and there's just one person that is at the top. But actually, when I say to my clients when they're struggling about, well, if I niche down, you know, what if they I want to work with them and or what if they approach me? I'm like, if they approach you and they want to work with you, you don't have to say no because they don't fit into this mould you've you've made. That's absolutely fine. You know, I I my messaging is all about um mums in business, but there's loads of people in the Wanky Thoughts Club who don't want kids, you know, so you're not going to alienate people, um, but you do alienate people when you're too generic, you know, because they we we want somebody who we feel gets us and and knows their stuff, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

And yeah, similar my client is like 95% female, and so all of my content is written to women, and that doesn't mean I don't photograph men. I, you know, probably every year I have a couple of brands sheets that are men. Uh, just a couple of weeks ago, I was working with a mechanic who set up a motorcycle business. I didn't say to him, Oh, I don't photograph men, you're not for me. I'm conscious that my content's probably not talking to him, but he still wanted to book with me anyway, because he'd had a referral from a woman that I'd worked with who said, She's brilliant, she's the one for you. And it hasn't put him off, but it has meant that the people that I am talking to really get that message and receive it in the right way. So and your point on like sort of yeah, sort of competition, you you hear people go, Oh well, there's 20 other people doing this, and you know, they they probably all do it better than me. And it's like, well, no, because you have your different angle. So you and I, Helen, are coming from quite different, you know, sort of approaches with it. So my understanding is like you're like the mindset and the sales side. Mine is far more on the sort of strategic side and the visual side. So we're not directly competing, we'll have different audiences, but also like my example that I always use is I'm a complete like fizzy drink addict. I love a Pepsi Max. Pepsi didn't go, oh well, we're not going to create a Coke because Diet Coke and Coca-Cola exists. And both of them are now really strong brands, and yet you've still got all the supermarkets making their own brand, you've still got the sort of fancy luxury brands coming in, and new ones coming in, you know, hipster brands all the time, creating a new different style of Coke. None of them have gone, oh well, I better not do it because Coca-Cola and Pepsi Max exist. They've just, it's fine, there's room for everyone. And the thing that we're well and what they've done is, you know, like those hipster brands as an example, they know their market. The people that don't want like this, what's seemed to be the big commercial manufactured drink, and it's all about natural ingredients and that kind of thing. And that's they it's they know their markets, they know who they're talking to. Yeah, and they're not going up against those ones, and that's but they're not letting it stop them and just because someone else is doing the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 33:13

Because I ask my clients as well when they're they're struggling with this like niching down. I'll say, right, let's look at your your target. What what how much do you want to make each month? So give me a target, right? How many customers do we need? How many clients do you need? And you think you, you know, times that by 12. And it's such a small number. If you think, you know, I don't know, what is there, eight and a half billion people in the world? Well, not everyone's gonna buy and not everyone's gonna be an idle client. So let's say, let's say you one billion, right? Let's go right down one or half a billion, right? Is there enough people within their half a billion? You need 10 people a year, right? From half a billion people, do you think you could find 10 people? And they go, Well, yeah, go right. Well, there is enough for everybody. And I've worked with clients who've also worked with so-and-so, and they're over there, and sometimes we go on a journey and we work with different people and we get different things from different people. It doesn't mean to say that because somebody's done your thing, they're never gonna buy it again, or that you know, want to recap or whatever. There really is, and this is something I really struggled with at the start of well, you know, she's got this program, she does what I do, and she's had uh 6,000 people go through her programme. Who's gonna want to do mine? And it's like, well, actually, loads, there's loads of people left, and all these people that you go, well, everybody, everybody knows about her, and everybody, you know, and then you mention the name that I've never heard of her. So, you know, the the the the world is huge, the market is huge, and there really is enough for everybody.

SPEAKER_01 34:49

Absolutely, I completely agree with that, and I think I'm all for making friends in business, not about the competition at all. Um, I think the people that worry about the other people doing similar things um sort of compete and missing a trick. I think it's when you're sharing an audience, you know, this is a perfect example. We probably share a very similar audience, but this is of benefit to both of us to have a chat on a podcast about what we both do. There's probably going to be times in life where you know someone might come to me and I'm not quite right for them, but I'll say, Oh no, but Helen's actually the perfect person for you, and vice versa. I, on the photography side as well, you know, I've got some really great friends that are photographers and that to all intents and purposes, we're probably competing with each other, but being self-employed is quite a lonely world. And if you alienate anyone that competes with you, then you are making your world even more lonely. I'd rather rather have that community, you know, I've got photographer friends that you know you have a problem that I know I can call them up and go help. Like, what would you do in this situation? We refer to each other, you know. I've got there's a lovely lady that I only met about a year ago. We've become good friends, she's in my community, I take advantage of her services. We again, with to all intents and purposes, you'd say we're competitors, but actually it's in our interests to work with each other and do these things together.

SPEAKER_00 36:14

And I think it's a much more well, it's a much better way to work, and it's a more profitable way to work rather than trying to make sure that your pool never get never see this person or never work with this person or put like barriers around them, is to go. I'll tell you why you should work with me. I'll give you all these reasons and I'll show up and I'll make, you know, under no doubt that I can help you. That is that's a much easier way to get clients rather than go around, let's try and like smash the competition and get rid of it. It's like it's not going anywhere, you know, it was ridiculous. Like just focus on you and your lane and your clients.

SPEAKER_01 36:53

Absolutely. And it all comes back to that mindset, really, doesn't it? Of like understanding that you are that best person for someone out there and that those are people that are there for you. And so you don't you almost don't need to worry about the competition because there is enough people, as you say, for us all. And I see it a lot when people are online as well, kind of they feel this kind of like the social media stuff like dragging them down, um, because you can see, you know, oh, so and so suddenly gained 5,000 followers. Um, I'm you know, oh, I I've I've not done that. I'm I'm I'm I'm failing, or this person's talking about how great their life is. Oh, I'm not, you know, and there's almost like there can be a jealousy or like this sort of feel it gives you a bad feeling, but actually the approach I love to take is when you see someone doing well, is look at them and go, well, what have they done to get themselves in that position and good for them? And am I prepared to do that? Because actually, the person that's got an extra 5,000 followers might have been posting every day or twice a day, and you've said, That's too much for me, I don't want to do that. And that's your decision, and that's you, you know, you can make these choices in life. So instead of feeling that enviousness and that jealousy, let's just like go, actually, good for them. I'm so glad that's working out for them. Do I want to do the thing that they're doing that's got them there, or do I not? And if I do, okay, well, what's why am I not doing that? And if I don't, then what there's no jealousy involved because I've made that choice.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

And I say I see like a parting gift. If there is people listening to this who go, this all makes sense, logically, this all makes sense, and I know I need to be visible, I know I need to go and talk about my offers, but something is stopping me. What would you say? What advice would you give? Like, what are the two or three things they could do today so they could grow their audience or get more people on their email list or sell their offers? What's the first thing we should be doing?

SPEAKER_01 38:53

So it's a journey I've been on myself as well, with and it does all come down to self-belief. It's all about having that belief in yourself to go out there and say, you know, this is this is me and this is what I do. And I feel that sort of positive affirmations and self-belief and journaling around that has been a huge journey for me. Getting clear on your message is another one. So getting that clarity to know who you are, who you help, and what you stand for. Because when those three things are clear and you believe them, so again, it comes back to that belief. If you believe them, then again, you feel so much more um yeah, confident, kind of showing up and doing it. And the third one would be around appearance if, because that's sort of an area I work with a lot with women. If appearance is holding you back in any way, know that it is no one else cares, you know. I I I see you online all the time, Helen, and I'm sure the saying works in reverse. Can you tell me what I was wearing in the last piece of content that you saw?

SPEAKER_00 40:01

I could not tell, I can't even tell you what you were wearing when we met at that event. Likewise. We sat and had brunch for two or three hours. I couldn't even tell you if you had jeans, trousers, I have no idea.

SPEAKER_01 40:14

No, exactly the same. I couldn't tell you. Uh, yeah, it no one is paying that much attention to you. And no one is, you know, I've I put a video up last year actually that got quite a good response, which was, you know, uh sort of a sort of parody was like, Did you book that accountant? Um, no, because her nose was too big. Have you have you have you found a graph graphic designer? Oh no, I didn't go with that one because she's too stone heavier than she was three years ago. Yeah. No one is making these decisions. So the only person that's telling us this is us. So if it's an appearance thing that's holding you back, I mean, it it's it is quite direct advice, but just get over it, put yourself out there, and you'll learn that no one cares.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

Exactly. And my my I suppose philosophy, the thing I always tell my clients is when you do videos, it will go tits up. Like you'll forget your words, you'll do really crap videos, you'll do ones the way look listen back. I mean, I always think I sound like a really high-pitched chipmunk. Um, you know, but just don't don't just just accept that you're not gonna like them. And I always give people like the hundred-day challenge. Do a hundred videos before you even watch them back, before you critique them, before you look at improving. Just do the bloody video, accept that it will go wrong, you'll forget what you're talking about. I mean, I'm of an age now, I'm sure I'm perimenopausal. I'll do podcasts and I'll go, I've totally forgot what I was going on about. And I don't even edit it out now. I just go, I just go with it. I go, what were I talking about? I'll come back to it later or whatever. Um, because nobody cares. And actually, the things that we the mistakes, the the cock-ups, the the you know, I've got bingo wings, so has everybody else, you know. But these are the things that make it relatable because, like, oh look at her, she's owning a bingo wings, she's owning a high-pitched chip-munk voice. I mean, I'm sat here in a flipping swimsuit because it's 30 odd degrees outside. But you've just, I mean, I used to really care about this stuff. I couldn't give her rats whiskers now, you know, because you you realize what's important, and I think that comes with you know, I'm very into journaling and affirmation stuff, but actually the thing that's cured that is just doing the bloody video.

SPEAKER_01 42:32

Yeah, absolutely. Done is better than perfect is something that I was taught many years ago, and I describe myself as a recovering perfectionist because I I still hate it when stuff's not perfect. And when this podcast comes out, I will watch it back, listen back, and I will pick up all the things that I've done wrong. So I can tell you now, somewhere near the beginning, I talked about entrepreneurs and I said intrapreneurs. I bet no one's can remember. Didn't even notice now. Yeah, exactly. At one point I said, I've got three things. I said one, and then I was like, I don't know what the others. I'm not expecting you to edit those out because it's real, and that's what if you meet me in real life, that's how I talk. I stumble over my words. I know I talk way too quickly, so I always stumbling on words. Yeah, like you say, perimonopaus brain, I forget stuff all the time, but that's who I am, and yeah, I I think you know, probably a lot of my audience are similar, and they're like reassured, reassured that actually, yeah, she does it anyway.

SPEAKER_00 43:29

You know what? People used to say to me, so when I first started my business, my youngest was a little baby, so I um you could go to nursery a couple of days a week when it was like two or whatever. But on a Friday we'd go swimming, and I purposely used to make a video on a Friday in the car in the car park. Henry would be in the background, you know, gurgling away, shouting or whatever. And I'd go here around with my swim hair and I'd go, God, look, I'll be dragged through edge backwards. Anyway, I don't care. And that would be always you know, I'd always mention like. I've been swimming. And the amount of people that would message me going, Oh my god, Helen, you've given me permission to because I've got small kids and I don't have time to blow dry my hair or put makeup on, but you've given me permission to start my business and start promoting it. And I was like, Oh my god, like this is amazing. By by me just showing up, because I didn't I didn't have time, I didn't have time to blow and do all those things, but you forget who's who you're inspiring by just showing up, and actually nobody cares. And in fact, I'm sure there are people who who maybe don't work with me because uh you know I see a lot of people online who are very polished and and suited and booted. They probably might not work with me because of that reason, but they're not my audience, you know. I liked I like the people I work with because they're just like me. They're just like and I love them to bits.

SPEAKER_01 44:54

Yeah, couldn't agree more. And it's I've I've done very similar stuff, shown up, you know, when I was starting to be more visible. So I was invisible for like the first eight years of my business, and when I started to be more visible, I was always like, Well, I can't do this if I haven't got full face of makeup, and I can't, um, you know, all these things had to be right. And then I was like, actually, it doesn't. And you know, I I tested it out in my stories, and I would say, like, one day I did a story and I was like, I had acne, I had no makeup on, I was wearing my glasses, um, which I don't I'm not a fan of wearing my glasses. And I literally kind of like showed up and said, 'Look, does anyone care, or did what I just tell you was it useful?' And they're like, Oh no, I'd rather hear what you've got to say that's useful, and that's a tip for me that's now helpful in my business, than you not do it because you know, the way you know you're looking. And I realised then, and I see this all the time now, and I'll tell you something actually. When I'm making content now, I know how to take a lovely photo. I, you know, I do loads of tips on how to get a really nice selfie, beautifully lit, poses, angles. Those aren't often the ones I put on the covers of like reels, for example. So if you look at like, and I do sometimes because I don't want my whole grid to be me making all music, you may will land on there and go, Who is this? Like, you know, so there are you will see some nice ones, but you'll also see that a lot of my real covers are me when I'm like going or like stupid faces, because when someone's scrolling quickly through and they get that cover, if it's just you nice and smiley, or there's like you going, uh they're more likely to click on the one where you look a bit strange because they're like, Oh, what's going on here? Yeah, if your goal is to reach more people, get more watches, share the stupid face because actually that's what works. Get over your vanity of like, oh, I want to look nice, because the nice photos aren't always the ones that get that engagement.

SPEAKER_00 46:51

No, I know I in fact, I think all my promotional stuff are all just selfies that I've got off my phone, or you know, been on a day out or whatever, and I've just gone, oh, that'll do. I don't I never I don't look my best, you know, I'm not polished, but nobody cares. Um, I could talk to you all day. This is flipping brilliant. And it's just so important that I think we get this message out there that you know, just just bloody do it. You know, when you're on your deathbed, none of this is going to be important. You're not gonna care about any of this. Um, where can we find um where can we find you? Where do where do you live not where do you live, but where do you live on the internet?

SPEAKER_01 47:31

So I'm at Abbey More UK on Instagram, I'm also on LinkedIn at Abbey More Branding, um, but I'm more active on Instagram where you'll get loads of um content on kind of tips for showing up, basically, how to look better in photos, which feels very hypocritical. But if you're not happy with how you look, I do know that people are less likely to do it. So I try and help him make it easier. Um, but yeah, that's the best place to follow me, Abby More UK, and I do have a free guide on visibility and why it's important and how to start. So um, I'll send you the link for that.

SPEAKER_00 48:05

Perfect. Well, Abby, thank you so much for taking the time out and sitting on this boiling hot day to do a podcast. Thank you so much. Wipe myself down with a flannel. It's brilliant. Getting the paddling pole because it is a thousand degrees in it. Thank you so much. Thank you, Helen.