9. You Don't Want It Enough (and Other Rubbish People Tell You)

I  swapped the car for her kitchen this week, and even blow-dried my hair because this week, I've got a guest! 

I met Vanessa Jennings at a networking event a couple of weeks ago and honestly, I could have talked to her all day.

Vanessa is a brand strategist who helps people stop sounding like everyone else. 

She's also a Kiwi who moved to the UK at 22, a mum, a former fashion industry lifer, and someone who took five... five — redundancies before finally saying "right, I'm doing this for myself."

In this episode, we get into all of it. 

Why it takes us so bloody long to leave jobs we hate. 

The "salary handcuffs" (and how I survived on plain pasta with tuna as a weekend treat). 

What actually happens when you launch something and nobody buys it. 

Why being told "you just don't want it enough" by a coach is one of the most awful things you can hear and why it's also nonsense.

We also talk about AI-generated content (Vanessa is not holding back), why trying to look professional online can completely kill your business, and how the best thing I ever did was just prat about in my kitchen making videos with no plan whatsoever.

If you've ever had a bad month and immediately gone back on LinkedIn to look for a job, this one's for you.

Find Vanessa: 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/vanessaeves/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vanessa-eve-jennings/

Website: https://vanessaeves.com/

GET IN TOUCH 

Message me at helen@helenwalkercoaching.com 

Follow me on Instagram 

Connect with me on LinkedIn 

Watch this podcast on YouTube

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to another episode of the Wanky Thoughts podcast. Now you'll notice if you want to watch it on YouTube, I'm not in my can today. I'm actually in my kitchen. I've blow dried my hair. I've put a little bit of makeup on because I've got a guest. I'm normally on my own, but today I've got a guest and I've got the lovely Vanessa Jennings, who I met uh a couple of weeks ago at a networking event. So, Vanessa, welcome to the Wanky Thoughts Podcast. How are you?

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Thank you very much. I am so good today. I think the sunshine makes a massive difference, doesn't it? It really does.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Oh my god, I'm like a different person when the sun shines. We've all crawled out of our holes, haven't we? Oh, it's lovely. Long may it continue. So just before I pressed record, I was saying to Vanessa, um there's there's no structure to this. I've got no questions. And do you know what? I had my own wanky thoughts in the shower this morning. So I was getting washed and doing what you do in the shower, and I thought, oh, I really should have come up with some questions and I should have a proper interview and stuff. And oh god, am I going to be professional enough? And will I just waffle and will this be a load of rubbish? And I was like, hang on a minute. That's what this show is all about is going, it don't matter. Just because we have these thoughts, don't you don't I don't need to be a TV presenter or a radio host. Um, so yeah, this is uh I thought, you know what, I'll put the kettle in instead of make myself a cup of tea and just have a chat. So Vanessa, just tell us, just for a bit of context, a little bit about what you do and how you got into it, and you know, a little bit about yourself.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

The whistle stop tour. So I am a brand strategist, so I help my clients with humanized marketing strategy that basically stops them sounding like everybody else. So I work across like brand identity, marketing strategy, their messaging, their content, um, and I work with quite a broad range of clients as well. So I work with product and retail brands and people who are setting up product brands. Um, I work with service providers, coaches, um, and then I work with people who are setting up their personal brands as well. So the work's a little bit different depending on who it is that I'm working with. Um, but how did I get here? My God, my I think my story is very similar to a lot of other mothers, where I had my career, I was working for 20 years in sales and marketing in the fashion industry, and then I had my kids, I went back to work, and I was trying to squeeze myself back into that same box, and I just didn't fit anymore. I had to travel, I was away from home all the time, you know, put a lot of pressure on my family. Um, but in my head, it took me four years to figure out that it wasn't working. In your head, I was just so desperate to get myself back and to have, you know, oh, back into my career. And I just thought you could kind of step back into it and you'd be everything would be the same as it was, and you just continue on, but it's absolutely not like that. So um I had my fifth and final redundancy, not the last, not two, not three, not four, five. So I like to think about it as the universe smacking me in the face with a sign that you should start your own business because it's always been a dream of mine. Um, but my yeah, my my company was changing my role and it was completely different to what I wanted to do. And I just thought, no, you know, I need to back myself here. Um, and it it resulted in voluntary redundancy. So that was beginning of 2024. So I've been doing business for two years now.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

There's so much to unpack there. There's so much to unpack. There's I imagine there's so many wanky thoughts in all of that. So tell us about because this is a really common thing, and I relate so much about this leaving employment. And it for me, it felt like there was this somebody called it salary handcuffs, and I was like, oh my god, that just summarizes it for me. Yeah, I I was like you for years. I sat at my desk and I could do this by myself. Like, why am I here? Why am I in these stupid meetings and you know, a boss who's just awful to me? And why am I sat here? Why did why does it take us so long to leave?

SPEAKER_01 4:16

I I I don't think, I think it's very hard to do it on your own because of that. It's the wanky thoughts, it's the how am I gonna pay the bills? How am I gonna, you know, how long is it gonna take me to set things up? That's why it's so many women that I speak to are in the same position. It's been redundancy, it's been actually a kick out the door, and also quite often it gives you that little financial buffer that gives you just that little bit more, I guess, security of thinking, okay, well, I've got a few months now to actually make this work. Um, because yeah, I just don't I don't I don't know if I would have done it on my own. I just I just don't know. I've always had that dream and I've always been a side hustler. I used to do wedding flowers when I came out of school, I was a florist, and then I moved to the UK from New Zealand, so I moved when I was 22, and I was working full-time and then I set up my own wedding flowers business. So I used to literally work seven days a week. I'll do my full-time job and then I'll do wedding flowers at the weekends. So I was, you know, I'm a bit of a hustler. Uh, but I think for me it was just always that like, how am I ever going to get to this same salary? Um, and you get to that certain point in your career and you've got to really, you know, you're comfortable, and it's that it's that golden handcuffs, isn't it? And you know, I'll be honest, I'm I'm only in my second year of business, so I am earning less than what I was, but you know what? It's all right. I just stopped buying pointless shit that I've had been buying for years and years.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

I remember when I I mean I started my business, it's probably getting on for about 13 years, it might even be more now. I can't even bloody remember. But I remember I was single, I didn't have kids, I was living in a shared house in um Rotherhide, the Canary Wharf. And um, like you, I was like, Well, I'll just strip back because I I didn't get married, I just handed my notice in. I literally just one day went, I cannot do this anymore. I just I'm losing the will to live. So I handed him a notice in. Didn't really think about it. I got nothing planned, nothing. And um I remember going, well, you know, I've got some savings, I'll use that. And I remember just eating plain pasta um for for for days on end. And then I'd treat myself on a weekend and I'd put some tuna fish in it just to like make it a bit nicer. Luxury. And um, you know, I didn't buy clothes for oh my god, eighteen eighteen months, and I mean literally nothing. Yeah, you know, I I probably I went out, but I just used to like get half a largo and it would last me all night and you know, things like that. But I mean, it the doubt doesn't go anywhere though, does it?

SPEAKER_01 7:04

It just follows you around. No, but I think I did an Instagram post on this a few months ago, and because I think, you know, especially like in the the space that we're both in, um, you know, there's a lot of talk, and Instagram is just full of it of people saying, you know, I make this amount of money and you need to invest in yourself, and you know, you've got to take those risks to do it. And I'm like, but to be honest, I just don't really buy into that because no one is telling people how you actually do that. So I I did a post and I said, Look, this is what it looked like for me. I stripped back everything. I went through my bank account, I stopped any sort of payments that were just unnecessary, just went right back to the bare bones. Same as you, I didn't buy anything unnecessary, no clothes, literally only replacing something if I needed to. Um, didn't buy myself more fancy makeup, you know. Yeah, kind of just actually you're all right, like you're fine. And then once I started to get clients in, I opened up an account with Starling Bank, and they have those spaces so you can put aside money for your tax, and importantly, I then also put aside an extra 10% into another space, which is my profit space, and that's where I started to save up the money to be able to reinvest in my own development. That's such a good idea. It's but no one talks about it. And you know, I had a call with a coach once, and and you know, I said to her, We've just done a massive renovation on our house, we've still got to get the flooring done, the kitchen, the landscaping. Uh, you know, you you you are quite expensive, and I just cannot, with a family that depends on me, I can't justify spending that. And she'd sort of made me feel a little bit that you know, I I should have put it on a credit card or I should have taken a little bit more risk with it, that you know, I didn't want it kind of enough. And I'm not, I don't actually believe that because I know myself, I know my position where I am, and I think people, you know, times are hard and people are finding it tough. But there are ways that you can do it, there's ways that you can hustle. But I think it's like if someone, you know, you have those conversations, someone puts a wanky thought in your head and you're like, oh, maybe I should just put it on a credit card, and you know, maybe I don't want it enough, you know, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

Yeah, and it's so it's so difficult when you know you've got your own wanky thoughts of oh god, am I good enough? And you know, things that have happened to you that have caused these wanky thoughts. But then this is what I say to my clients is you know, so why do I think like this? I'm like, well, you've had a lifetime of other people telling you if you don't invest and you don't buy their costs, and if you don't have that handbag, you don't live on that street, then you're a loser. And I think I hate it when you know, coaches or service provider, whoever, when they go you don't want it enough, and you're like, Are you for real? You have got no idea how much I want this. But you know, you want me to put it on a credit card and you're making me feel awful if I don't. I mean, it's just it's just horrendous.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

The the experiences I've had where uh I've invested in coaching or mentoring or a program and it hasn't worked out, what it has shown me is what I don't want in my business. Yeah, and it's actually given me a lot more clarity on what I am doing. So I do think that it's important that we still keep investing in that and and you know, not listening to those wacky thoughts and just okay, actually, I need to, you need to keep that self-development up and keep that growth. And okay, it's not always going to be a super positive experience and give you that massive growth in your business that you want, but it helps you to solidify what's working and what's not and what's for you and what's not. And that's I work with my clients a lot on helping them to realize how brilliant they are because again, this comes back to the wanky thoughts, doesn't it? Where so many times we just, you know, sometimes I'll have a client come to me and I'll say to her, What's your big stretchy goal? Like, where do you want to be in like five years' time? Where do you want to see the business side? Let's just dream for a second. And she'll one of them said to me, you know, I want to be I want to do a TED talk, I want to be on stages, I want to do this. And I just said to her, I was like, the person sitting in front of me now, you look to me like you could do that tomorrow. You have the presence, you have the charisma. I can just see you doing that, but she didn't believe it inside because of the wanky thoughts. So that's where I kind of helped her pull out the brilliance and just like solidify you and what your, you know, who you are, your identity, your messaging, who you want to be speaking to, all of that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 11:29

I love that. I absolutely love that because I I think this is why I do what I do because I I am my own ideal client. So I I've had all the wanky thoughts, and I still have the wanky thoughts, I don't, you don't, they don't go anywhere. Um, but I I look back and I think, oh my gosh, the amount of times that I limited myself or the amount of times I didn't say yes. Um and my ethos now, my somebody messaged me the other day and said, Would you be interested in doing this? I was like, my answer is always yes now, always yes. Um, because the amount of times I held myself back when I was ready to do that stuff, but I just didn't believe that little old me from Doncaster, this tiny little village, who would be interested in what I had to say? Yeah, you know, the amount of times when I haven't haven't even pushed myself, I haven't even entertained the idea that I, you know, I've only recently started speaking at events because I was like, well, what have I got to say? Who's gonna listen to me? And it's it's just it is it's not true, it's just a thought.

SPEAKER_01 12:35

Well, this is it, and I think there's also something to be said for doing things before you're actually ready, because one of the things that I do help my clients with is that um limiting beliefs, which are wacky thoughts, aren't they? Basically, so the fear of being judged is a massive one for people. Um, the self-doubt, and then also comfort zones. Like I I commit, and I think when I started my business, I committed to just always living outside my comfort zone. And if something scares me or gives me the shits a little bit, I'm like, okay, that means I need to do it. I need to push myself and do this because growth is on the other side, you know. And if we just sit and listen to them and just go, oh no, oh no, I couldn't do that. And sometimes, you know, it's not always gonna go well, but then you learn from that as well, and you're not gonna you're not gonna know until you've done it either.

SPEAKER_00 13:23

And I think we need to normalize as well. Like I'm quite open with when things go tits up, and and every single day there is something that doesn't go to plan. And I think business is just a series of challenges and hurdles that you have to jump through every flipping day, and then you'll get one little you know bit of joy at the end of it. I think people think business is all this, it's all amazing, it just all goes well, and everything's you know, it's brilliant. It's like it's not, it's just dealing with crap every day. Um, but the obviously the the upside is you you you know you get freedom of your own time and you can take a day off if you want, and all of that upside. But there is a lot of stuff that goes wrong, and I think you know, people would be forgiven for you've only got to open Instagram and you know, nobody makes mistakes and they make a million pounds starting a beach in 10 minutes, and yeah, just do this one thing and it revolutionizes the business, and you're like, No, it doesn't, it's out of rubbish, and you know, this idea that you know, I was I I did this in like a week, and you're like, you didn't.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

You just didn't. I was just thinking that you know, social media's got a lot to answer for for that because it is just a highlight reel, but that's where, especially with brand marketing and how I help my clients humanize what they're doing, you know, people want to see that vulnerability, and that's where they actually start to feel that connection with you, you know, if it's just that highlight reel. I mean, I just I just cannot stand to see another post from someone telling me how much money they're making and how easy it is for everyone else, and it just doesn't work like that. You know, they've probably been in their business 15 years and they've had like a thousand failed launches, and you know, if you're not talking about that, then it's not normalizing it for everybody else. You know, I've had I've had launches where I've not sold one thing, and you sit there and you go, shit, was it me? Here comes the wanky thoughts. They just come like whizzing in, don't they? Like, is it not good enough? Do people know I'm blah la la la la la la, you know, and then you just have to go, no, stop. That actually happens to everybody. It's very, very common. It's just that people don't talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

Yeah, and it you know, it happens, I think it happens to everybody. I don't know anybody who didn't launch something and didn't sell anything, especially in the early days, because you you don't know, you can't possibly know it all. You know, even if you work with the best coach, you're not gonna what works for them might not work for you. And yeah, you just you have it's just a right of passage, you've just got to go through it and see see what works. But because nobody talks about it, we you know, like you say, you don't know what happens, but I what worked for me in my business was when I first started, I thought I'm gonna have to be all professional and I'm gonna have to wear a suit, and um you know, I I've got to be a certain type of person. For some reason, it was somebody who carried a briefcase. I mean, who I talked to the men the other day walking down the street, it wasn't doing briefcases, and I was like, I haven't seen that for like 20 years. That was my idea of what a successful person was. And um when I first did that when I started coaching, I mean, it's dull, it was I was as dull as dishwater. It was as f further from the real me as I could possibly get. And then um I let well my husband kept going, but this business, like, is it is it gonna work? I mean, you've been at it a couple of years now. I'm like, oh god, you know, I'm like I called it pocket money, I was like just scraping by. And I thought, I'm gonna have to go back to recruitment, that's what I've done. And I thought, you know, I can't keep doing this. So I started making these videos where I literally prattted about in my kitchen doing just acting out the voices in my head because it was almost like a I was trying to fool myself, but also show my husband, oh you know, I am doing something productive. And um at that stage, I didn't care. You know, at that stage I didn't I didn't even know about the wanky thoughts, didn't know they were a thing. I was doing career coaching. Yeah, so the wanky thoughts had kind of gone because it was like, well, who cares? I'm going back to recruitment now, I may as well just enjoy myself for a month and then go and look for a job. And like what you said, I was vulnerable, didn't realise I was being vulnerable. I was just it was a last ditch attempt. But people were like, Oh my god, like that's exactly how I feel, and oh my god, you've just hit the nail on the head. And it was that vulnerability that connected me to my audience, then they started messaging me, then we started having conversations, and then they were like, Can you teach me how to do this stuff? And I was like, Well, yeah, if you want, and then that's how like my business grew, just by well, like I say, it was procrastination, but it was that just allowing people in and me going, do you know what? Everything goes wrong, and business is hard, and this is what's in my head, and then everything took off.

SPEAKER_01 18:18

Yeah, yeah, it's so funny, isn't it? And this is, I think, a big trap that I see with women that I work with, because quite often I will work with women at the beginning stage of their business. So if it's a service provider and they are either setting up their business or they're a couple of years in and they haven't really done that work on their messaging or their brand, and quite often I'll see that they've have tried to professionalize themselves, and that's what we think we need to be, but actually that's what just completely strips the personality out of what you're doing and and strips people connecting with you. And I mean, the worst obviously offender that we probably need to speak about is uh people getting AI to write their content. And it's just it's an it's an epidemic. I mean, I think it's probably the worst on LinkedIn. Um, my two platforms are Instagram and LinkedIn, but even on Instagram, I just feel I feel really disappointed for people when I can say because I know I I understand, and I did actually get challenged on this once on my post on LinkedIn where I was going, if I see another AI generated, you know, we just it's just slop. It's just words out in the universe that we just don't need. It's haven't got an opinion, it tells you what you want to hear, it's generic, you know, there's just it's just words on a page that don't actually say anything in particular. And I did get challenged. And it was actually from a previous client, and she said, you know, I I disagree with you, Vanessa. I'm a single mum, I'm working part-time, I'm also trying to build this business part-time. At the moment, you could call it a side hustle, but I've got big dreams, and I do not physically have the time to write my captions to do this, and it's been a godsend. And I get it, I totally get it, and I really sympathize with her in that moment, but the really harsh reality is that that business is probably not gonna take off if the captions are generic, if it's just saying the same things as everybody else, because you just blend into the ether and it there's no specific point of view, and I felt I felt sad. I felt because I I totally get it and I totally understand, and I really sympathize. And I do actually work with my clients to help them utilize AI in the right way, but the reality is it's a crowded market, and you've just got to be authentic, you've got to be your true self.

SPEAKER_00 20:37

I could not agree more, and like I, you know, I get that woman's situation because you know, I I don't have a I was gonna say I don't have a job, I don't have a side hustle. This is my side hustle. But I've got two kids in a house to run, and even that is you're like, whoa, that's that's that's a lot. Yeah, um, just keeping up with like school WhatsApp groups is just enough. But I agree, you know, you I mean you don't even you don't even need to know anything about marketing, just understand like how people form relationships. They form relationships because we share a story with them or we we reveal something and like I I'm clearly from up north, but I live down south. Now, if I bump into another northerner, oh my god, we're best mates straight away because we've got that thing in common that we've moved away from our hometown, we now live down south, we talk about who's friendlier, north or south, and how we've found it, and instantly we've got this um connection. And that's how people build relationships that we see something in somebody and we go, oh God, they're like us, and we feel safe. It goes all goes back to that like tribal stuff of we feel safe, here's a group where we belong. But if it's just spewing out, here's a tip, or here's some information, or here's a how to, it's like it's just such generic stuff. Um, we what are we connecting on? That's AI has not lived, it's not. Got stories, it's not don't get passionate about stuff, it'll it'll contradict itself. I keep putting stuff in and they go, Well, hang about what about this? Oh no, you were right, yeah, leave it in. I'm like, You just told me to take it out. Bogar off.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

Yeah, it's funny though, because again, that's something that I help my clients with, where they'll come to me and they know they need to start talking about their story, but um they after we brainstorm everything, they can't see. And um there's an analogy about this that like you're in the jar, but you can't see like what's on the label on the outside, and you need someone to help read it. Well, often we do need that objective eye, that objective opinion, and someone to be able to see what we can't see because we're too close to it. It happens to me doing my own brand. Yeah, they they often can't see those access points in their story that's gonna then connect to their ideal client. Um, and there's always, there's always, always, I haven't had a client yet, but there's not been like a powerful part of their story. And I think 95% of the people that I work with have created a business to solve a problem that a past version of themselves had. And that's where it's like, okay, don't try and start something new over here, a new story, because this is your story, and that's the most powerful part of that connection about why and how. You know, for me, I talk about the fact I'm from New Zealand, people can connect with that, the fact I've had five redundancies because so many people have been through that now. Um, you know, the fact that I'm a mother and I'm a working mother, there's there's lots of different things, and there's little kind of micro stories in between. But I know the, you know, if I post about being a Kiwi and you know, five ten ways to be more Kiwi, um, people love that because it's unique to me and it's sharing my perspective, and it's not it's not about business, but it helps them to get to know me better, you know.

SPEAKER_00 23:55

Yeah. Well, it's like when I met you at that networking event the other week, we were talking and we were obviously on the same page about so much stuff about kids and work and the wanky thoughts and who we want to help and why I want to help. And instantly I was like, oh my god, this is a woman I need in my world. Like, I love this woman, and we were chatting for ages. I could have, I could have carried on talking to you for hours, but that's because you didn't come up to me and go, Oh, let me tell you about branding and all the facts, and because that I would have gone, oh it's a bit boring, thanks. But you told me about your story, and I was like, oh my god, I love her. And then that's led to you know, we've run a podcast together, and you know, that to me is how business is done it, you know, you build relationships, and I do think I think we may have spoken about this about AI. I think people will get so bored of it, and we don't trust it, we don't trust what we see. And I think a lot of business will go back to all I'm at her at a networking event and we got chatting. And if you're not gonna share your story or bits of stuff that people remember, you know, then how are you gonna get remembered? Because you've just got to be genomic.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

And I think also, like as you get older, you I mean, we're we're busy, aren't we? And I don't and I don't subscribe to the like busy, busy, busy, but we are busy, we've got a lot going on. But also, especially with clients, like you need to work with people who are your kind of person and are on the same page, and that was a big mistake I made in the first year of my business. And I'm not a man-hater at all, but I had a couple of bad experiences with clients who weren't men, and you know, I just as a woman building her own business, that's who I like to support. Um, and when I am in a room, I just know instantly that you know it was the same with you. We just had that spark, we had that connection, and the people that I want to be around with, and that's where, especially as a business owner as well, you have to you have to create that environment for yourself where you feel supported because I I absolutely love my mum friends, but they if someone's employed and they have been for 20-30 years, they don't really understand it and they don't have the same challenges. And I think also uh I mean, bless them, I don't really think they know what kind of questions to ask you to like it. So we talk about the kids, we talk about this, but when it comes to my business and the highs and the lows, and you know, the challenges that we have, and actually being able to say, Do you know what? I'm I'm having a really shit month actually. Yeah. If you speak to another female business owner who has the same vibe as you, like you just you come away from that conversation feeling like, oh god, I feel so much better.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

Yeah. Well, it's like I don't tend to work Fridays because the kids do sport on a Friday, so I can go to school and watch and whatnot, and I'd get stuff done on a Friday. And um uh what was gonna say, um, oh when I go and watch sport and stuff, people say, Oh, you've got an easy life view. Because I've juggled that round meetings to get to here and stuff. And I'm like, oh, I don't really don't, you know, I don't tend to do much on Fridays. And uh God, you've got such an easy life view. Oh, you don't know you're born. I'm like, oh mate, if you could see like what goes on behind the scenes, you would not be saying that. Like, there's no guarantee at the end of the month my paycheck will arrive. You know, if I if I am sick, there's no pay, if I go on holiday, you know, there's no, you know, no one's paying me while I'm away. It's um it's just different challenges, isn't it? It's just different, different things to deal with.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

Yeah, it definitely looks it looks different from the outside, I think. Um, but that's why you know I'm a prolific networker. I just find it absolutely lifts me up. And yes, it is great to make connections to people that could potentially be clients, but for me, the most important thing is being that network. And I'm a very I'm a social person, I do need time on my own, but I get life from people, and that's how I kind of feel energized as well.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

Yeah, I'm the same. And I think no matter what networking event you go to, you come away. And it it I always go, oh my god, I'm like really good. Because people always ask me stuff, well, you know, what do you do? And I'll tell them, and then I'll say, Well, what about this? And what about this? And you, you know, because I get so passionate about it, I just I mean, I spill everything, every everything is free for you know, I just give it freely. So people are like, Oh, and what about this? And then I come where and I go, Oh my god, I know so much. It's just a reminder that's so clever.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

These are the things where you know what you know, but you don't know what other people don't know, and there's so much brilliance inside your head. It's funny because one of the talking about wanky thoughts, I think there's wanky thoughts that come up for everybody that are prolific, that are like repeat offenders, that come from our past. And for me, a massive one was when I was in the fashion industry and I was working wholesale for brands. So I would be in my showroom and I was working for a footwear brand, and the buyers would come in and say they're buyers from ASOS or Office or some big high street, and I would have like 40 grand next to them that I needed to, I needed to make them buy, basically, to have my targets, and they'll come in and you know, they might like the collection or they might not. And my success was riding on whether they liked the collection or not. That was not that was outside of my control as well. And so I think over the years, you know, it it grinds you down a little bit, and then also in sales, you know, you're constantly having to do outreach, outreach, outreach. So you get no, no, no, no, no. So wanky thoughts that come up for me all the time is like, I don't know if I'm good enough. There's loads of other people out there that are way better than me. And so, like, as you say, if you get to have a conversation with someone and they're like, Oh wow, thank you so much for that.

SPEAKER_00 29:40

You're like, Oh man, maybe I do know my shit after all. Yeah, and this is because that is a really big wanky thought that comes up so many times because people say, Well, there's loads of people talking about what I'm talking about, there's loads of people doing what I'm doing, so why would they listen to me? And that woman over there, she looks better, she sounds better, she's got more Instagram followers, she's more articulate, um, been doing it longer. Why would they listen to me? And I think this is why your story is so important. Because actually, we don't we we're emotional beings, we we don't make decisions on logic. So we will buy from the person that we connect with the most, not the best person to do the job. It's like when you go for an interview, then this is what I used to do coach people through interviews. I used to say, it's not the best person that gets the job, it's not the because what they would just do is look at your credentials, look at your exam results, and look at what you've achieved and then get you in. But it's I've got to work with this person all the time. Who do I connect with best? And it's exactly the same when people buy, is especially if you're a coach and you're gonna sign up with work with them for six months, whatever, they might be the best coach on planet earth, get amazing results. But if you go, you're just not my cup of tea, love, that's gonna be a long six months.

SPEAKER_01 30:56

Yeah, but someone's gonna get cheated at the end of it because you're probably not gonna get a massive amount out of it either.

SPEAKER_00 31:02

You won't do because you're not gelling with them, but then you find someone who, I don't know, might not have the credentials, might be starting out, whatever, but you go, That is my that is my person. That I could spend all day with them, you're gonna get much and you're gonna get better results for your your clients. So it comes back to if you don't share your story, how can we decide that we love you or not?

SPEAKER_01 31:24

Yeah, absolutely. And I think there's a like there's a massive level of self-trust that needs to go along with that. And it's I always say to people, like confidence, you're not born with confidence. Like I was not born with confidence, it comes from something.

SPEAKER_00 31:39

You you I suppose you kind of are, but then life kicks it out of you. Because you think you think like kids, they run around naked, they you know, when they're trying to walk, they don't care who who sees them fall over. They could not give a rat' whiskers, but yet, you know, I've seen it with my son, he's eight. He's starting to go, oh, what will people think? I'm like, we do not care what people will think, but it's just this natural thing of it's this safety thing coming again, isn't it? Do I think then will I be evicted from the tribe and will I survive? So I totally agree, you know. I suppose you've born with it, but then it quickly goes, and you've got to learn how to get it back.

SPEAKER_01 32:17

Yeah, absolutely. And I I remember when, because I I grew up my account on Instagram as a fashion creator, so it was a bit was a bit like sliding doors. I had kind of my career and then I had this, and I didn't really know how they were gonna fit. And luckily, I found I found my niche, I found, you know, the thing that lights me up. But I very clearly remember when reels came in and video content, and we were all just taking pictures, and I was just the mirror selfie girl, you know. I just used to share my outfits and mirror selfies, and I got to a point where you know I I just found it a bit hollow. I wanted to be able to talk more and to be able to share more of my thoughts and everything. But and then video came and I just thought, oh god, and I I've still got the first reel I ever did on Instagram, which was a mirror selfie, but I walked towards the mirror and then back again. And it's the most awkward thing you've ever seen. You look at it and you think she's just doing what she was doing, but then she's just doing it on video, and it was revolutionary, it's very, very awkward, but you have to start somewhere by doing the thing and then repeatedly doing the thing. I always say to people, like if they if they're not comfortable on video, I'm like, you just you just have to do the thing, and you just have to find your own style, exactly like what you've done, you know, with the um the reels that you do, which are absolutely brilliant. And I've not seen anyone else do anything like that, but it's it's test and learn, you've got to trust yourself to just build it.

SPEAKER_00 33:44

That's it. A lot of my clients will go, oh yeah, but I don't want to do those kind of videos. I'm like, Well, don't do them, don't because it will be it will be so awkward, it'll be toe-cullingly cringy. But I I just say to people, do you know what? Because people say, Oh, it takes me so long to do my content, it'd take hours. I mean camera. I'm like, don't do it then. All you need to do is I call them walk and talk videos, pick up your phone and just do the school run, walk to the top of your street. I mean, my neighbours must think I'm crazy. I just literally walk up and down the street recording videos. I said, just record a video and just tell people your story. Because, like you say, 90% of my clients have all experienced whatever they're solving now. I said, just tell people where you were, what you did, and how good life is now. Just that three-step formula. You don't have to get fancy, that could be done in like two minutes.

SPEAKER_01 34:32

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

You know, and it just it just makes people go, oh, she's she's walked the path, she's not, you know, she gets it. I'm gonna go and I I can tell her all my secrets, she's not gonna judge me because she's she's been there. You know, I help people get on camera because my first live video, I deleted it because I wish I'd have saved it now. If I deleted it because it's so awful, and I was like, hello everybody. Um, right. If you want to advance in your career, I mean it was awful, it was awful, but I thank those videos because if I hadn't done them, I would have never been doing these videos now. Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

Oh yeah. Um yeah, I I'd see it all the time with my clients where they, you know, that I think quite often if you're not creative as well, if you're not kind of you tending to be a creative type of person, you can find it quite difficult to actually get started. Um, so I always say to people, save inspo, just go on, find you know, videos that you like, save the inspo, and then stop, stop watching other people and just try things yourself.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:37

Um, but I mean it's it's hard on Instagram at the moment, it's really hard. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:42

And this is this all comes back to you've got to build relationships. I think the days of you put some posts up and you get clients, they're gone, you know. And it's so difficult to. I mean, I look at my videos, I used to get thousands of views on my videos. Now you know, I get like 300 if I'm lucky, and you're like, well, you know, but what you have to do then is go, well, you know, what can I do? You know, and for me, it's being going and networking and building relationships and starting conversations, whether that be online or offline, yeah, and and but you know, being vulnerable and sharing and building that relationship, which takes longer, and I think this is where the wanky thoughts come in again. If it doesn't happen overnight, we think, oh, well, we're rubbish.

SPEAKER_01 36:25

Yes, and that is again one of the pitfalls of being a business owner is that you have one bad mum and you just fall into the depths of despair. It's such an emotional roller coaster, isn't it? I think the more the time goes on. I know for me, those first couple of like the first year, definitely, I was just on an emotional roller coaster. And if I had a bad month, I was on LinkedIn looking for a job. I mean, I can't tell you how many times I logged on looking for a job, and then I realized I'm probably unemployable now. Um then also, you know, you just you get used to that rhythm as well because you have a good month and then you have a bad month, and it's never, it's never the same. Yeah. You know, we do have seasons as well. Sometimes you have a great season and then sometimes it drops off. But you know, I was talking to um a dad at swimming the other day, and he owns his own business, and I said, you know, you just have to hold your nerve. And he was like, That's exactly it. You have to hold your nerve, trust yourself, don't listen to the wanky thoughts, and just stay in your lane and not get distracted by what everyone else is doing.

SPEAKER_00 37:24

Yeah, and keep sharing your story, as you say. And I think as a mum as well, it's not always, and and you know, for some dads, it it's not always just work, you know. Oh, well, I didn't do that, so I've had a quiet. Sometimes, like your family need you, or you need, you know, you've got to do something pulls you away from your business. And of course, your kids, your family are always gonna win. And I've had months where I've gone, Christ, I've not made any money, but then I go, Well, it was school holidays, uh, we had this before, I couldn't do what I was gonna do. So, of course I wasn't gonna make sales because I didn't put the work in to start with, because I couldn't, because I had to go and do X, Y, and Z. And you're like, I just gotta stop being so hard on ourselves and go, do you know what? You know, I I did fall into the whole Instagram thing of you've got to make a million pounds and you've got to live in this dream house. And it's like, but what do I want a million pounds for? Because actually, my life's quite nice. I have lovely holidays, we have a nice house, we have a nice standard of living. Um, what what is it I need all these gazillions of pounds for? And it's so easy to the wanky thoughts of, oh, well, I'm not successful. You know, if you're not doing like multiple six figures, you're a loser. It's like, come on.

SPEAKER_01 38:40

Yeah, yeah. It's it's uh yeah, it's definitely uh um a bit of a trap that we fall into, those kinds of thoughts, isn't it? Really hard.

SPEAKER_00 38:49

And it's so easy to do. Oh Vanessa, I could talk to you for so long. This has been amazing. Thank you so much. Um, tell everybody where they can come and find you. Because I had a look on your uh, I was going through your Instagram account this morning. I was like, it's just such a joy to be on your account because this it the colours it just makes you smile. So what what where do we find you?

SPEAKER_01 39:11

So my Instagram handle is at Vanessa Eaves, so that's Vanessa and then Eve with an S on the end. And I'm also on LinkedIn. Uh on LinkedIn I'm Vanessa Jennings, and then my website at the moment is vanessaeves.com. Um, I am going through a bit of a um transformation with the business, so that's going to be coming soon. Can't say too much. Very exciting. About you. So um watch this space. But I'd love for people to connect with me and slide into my DMs if I've enjoyed the conversation as well. Always love a combo about a wanky thaw. Hello.

SPEAKER_00 39:46

And Vanessa is flipping brilliant at what she does, so go and check her out. But Vanessa, thank you so much for taking the time out and uh coming and chatting with us. Thank you. Bye.